it's not my argument, I made no mention of eve dieing anywhere. My philosophy is that variety is the spice of life : when I get bored of FiS I want to have another option like WiS instead of logging out of the game and loading another one. Why is it so hard to understand? Wouldn't it be better if Eve was an all in one space sci-fi game instead of just a spaceship game?

Not our fault that WiS is so unclear. Im sure that as has happened with many other parts of the game, CCP can bring together a team and focus on a WiS plan. Heck, they even had the time to build an arcade side scroller (in their spare time) then they definitely can do something similar for WiS so that at least people will finally be convinced that its a good thing.

So... Your fine with CCP putting money and employees into other projects that don't really affect you much, like Dust and WoD... but your not happy with the idea that CCP might use some resources to make WiS work? Don't get me wrong. When CCP do avatar development, I want it to be done properly. But you don't see me in here trolling people because you want it done your way, not theirs. You should have just said how you thought it should be done in the first place.

As for total active users as a measurement of success for Eve... It might not be a measure of success for CCP (Because so long as they get the subs, its all good) but it is a good show of the health of the game. Subs mean nothing to me or my game-play, but active users makes all the difference.

Players are not stakeholders and can't do those things.

Yes, because the WoD project is running a wonderful revenue. Please tell us more about your in depth business experience, haha.

Varius, since I think I made a fairly convincing argument in another thread, let me quote myself.

The way I see it CCP needs to come clean here. Either declare Avatar based features dead forever in the game of Eve, or state that at some point money that could be spent on FiS will instead be spent on WiS.

The problem is that people still believe that WiS was the cause and that it's something to be outraged over, which means CCP are still going to have to contend with those people if they want to release more WiS content.

...it's a controversial topic so they're unlikely to address it directly until they feel in-space features are on a stable footing and that bringing it up again won't produce a massive backlash. Plus those are large, primary features and that's unlikely to be what future WiS development is going to be. Far more likely it'll have a dedicated team and be going on in the background of everything else.

Meanwhile the 12 month anniversary of this thread is coming up.

Seriously CCP. What else do we need to do to demonstrate that there is huge interest in meaningful avatar gameplay?

Posting in a thread addressed to a team that doesn't even exist anymore isn't going to sway them.

It's like you haven't read this thread and seen what they are asking for. You should try it.

So? There isn't a coherent vision of what in-space content should look like either.

Because the forums are totally known for people agreeing on exactly what they want from a given feature or area of gameplay...

Making fun of people who play a spaceship game but whine about a lack of space pants is p fun.

Or when those forum posts are accompanied by subscription cancellations. Kind of like what happened after Incarna was released.

Well, that's because EVE is no longer really about sci-fie... sure, it's about spaceships... but other then that, it's a playground for juvinile delinquents on a power trip, screwing each other over... no wonder, no excitement... just meaningless, tedious competition...

And in case that such prospect is not your piece of cake, or you just fancy being a human being doing human stuff in a SF universe rather than be an anonymous ship asploding other anonymous ships, well, CCP also haves a plan for you: give your money to someone else!

Do humor me by telling how adding avatar gameplay would alter fundamentals of EVE gameplay in any way? Provided it is entirely optional to engage in, and I seriously doubt that after Incarna it would be ever forced on people again.

Does news ever occur in this thread anymore or is it just ongoing circular arguments?

well if it's as good as the hype I will definitely be leaving eve for star citizen. Being happily married, working and looking after a family etc, I can only devote so much time to gaming and eve takes a considerable amount of time to do properly, I'll miss eve but I think I will love star citizen.

Yes. There doesn't seem much for the solo players and small corps in that vision.

So the trick to avoiding more riots is to make the next avatar-content expansion not lackluster.

So, never then? There will always be issues that need improvement, and things that need fixing.

Yes, and no. Yes, the game was ignored and the players were angry (rightfully so). No, that being ignored had nothing to do with Avatar content. It didn't take CCP 2 years to build our CQs, they developed a games engine (reinvented the wheel when they should have just bought one) and started working on Dust and World of Darkness in that time.

We were ignored because CCP got greedy and spread their resources too thin, not because CCP had a dream of Avatar content.

I don't mean to be disrespectful and wouldn't have contributed my reply to the thread had I not thought that it was relevant. We're all friends here, this is just an exchange of ideas not an attack on you personally.